economy. and yet in june, i think it's hard to argue there had been substantial improvement. and just one indicator, they had gone from 148,000 to 185,000. i think the real reason is they're concerned about the risks being created by the balance sheet growing to large. >> and potentially wonder background tefkiveness of the program at this point, too. >> absolutely. the efficacy of it is in question. yet they continue to do it in september. so i think as part of that, the market now looks and if the fed comes out and says we're not going to raise rates until 2017, i think the market knows that if the conditions change, they're willing to change course. >> i mean, this is an argument against transparency in some -- in some level. i mean, the fed has said we're going to be transparent, we're going to tell the market what we're doing. and i guess there are some major risks to that idea of transparency. >> sure. and you have to look at transparency as two things. first of all, it's a policy tool.

some sense that she really does believe very much in the models and in a model centric view of the economy. >> what does that mean? >> what it means is, when i look

is a 2% economy you see right now or 3% economy? in your view? >> right between your two numbers, in my view, joe. >> it is? >> yeah. >> so it's okay. we want it to be better, obviously. >> all right,mate. that's what you call each other there, right, mate? see ya. andrew, thanks. >>> coming up, a deadly train derailment in new york yesterday, details at 7:30. and then, what if you could send your kids to college for four years for free? that's the bold approach of the project. ceo ben nelson joins us to talk higher education in a few minutes. she loves a lot of the same things you do. it's what you love about her. but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your hea

what would the threat be to the economy if that happens? >> i think it's a bad tool to do, number one. i think it's a mistake for the fed to do it. it will cause problems in the money market funds. it will cause dislocations in the way the banks handle reserves. i think there are better things the fed can do. by the fed focusing people on the concept of the reality, we have a disciplinary environment. we have downward pressures on inflation coming through. that should be the key. if they get the long end of the curve to flatten on inflation expectations coming down, i think that will be a very, very positive development for the economy moving into 2014 and i think that's going to be janet yellen's job to do as she takes over the reins of the federal reserve from ben bernanke. >> steven, darryl, gentlemen, thank you both. >> thank you. >>> coming up, "consumer reports" unveiling its holiday report card. find out who's been naughty and nice. first before we do that, squawk sports news. if you went to sleep early last night, you missed an exci

if the economy looks like it's slow, then it can't handle those higher rates. >> if the economy looks like it's slow, what's your expectation for 2014? >> i think they could pick up a little bit. this year, growth will be between 1.5% and 2%. that's terrible. next year if we see 2.5% to 3%, that's not great, but it may not enough to get the fed to taper. >> peter, you're concerned about the market, but you do admit the market could continue to run for a while. what's the real signal to you that, okay, there's something concerning and it's happening right now? >> well, i think we need to see the numbers. over the past month, we've seen with the success of highs in the indices, we have had the number of stocks trading above their two inch day afghanistan. not confirming the understandsy highs. that doesn't pick a top. this can go on for months. i just think that the risk/rewar is getting more dangerous. >> if you think that, do you tell them to keep off, not put new money into the market? do you tell them to take some money off and keep it on the sidelines in cash? >> well, the professi

>> well, look, you know what, i think our economy is challenged. and i think that, you know, it's going to be reflected in things like holiday sales. you see the determination that people have to find the lowest possible prices. or, you know, all the discounting that's taking place right now. these are unprecedented discounts that we've seen for things. and i think it's a reflection of the challenges in the economy. >> are the retailers bearing the brunt of this? walmart had spectacular sales yesterday. i was looking at things, 299 for an ipad mini, $39.99 for "call of duty." are they taking this and eating it themselves? >> on some items they're probably absorbing the costs but in most cases it's the manufacturers supporting those prices through promotions. >> we've talked an awful lot about the sense of uncertainty that american business leaders have, consumer consumers have too. a lot generated by washington. do you think things have gotten better or worse over the last year or so? >> my opinion is probably counterintuitive to others, but i thin